inkscape vs gimp

Your email address will not be published. All Classes and Courses You can even turn yourself into a caricature if you’d like! In this post I’ll be comparing both applications, going over what their intended uses are, the pros and cons of each, and most importantly, I’ll be helping you determine which one is best for you. Its equivalents are Corel PhotoPaint and Adobe Photoshop. However, there appears to be a decent amount of confusion as to which program you should use based on what you need out of a program. It can technically be done, but it’s kind of like using a fork to eat your cereal. There are tools that allow you to paint and sketch in Inkscape, but they should only be used in a limited capacity. These software are used to edit photographs and graphics, add effects, make them stylish, etc. Explore If you’d like to learn how to use GIMP then be sure to check out some of the GIMP tutorials I have on this website. On the other hand, you can create a vector design and import it into GIMP to be used in a photo (such as a logo watermark to add to the bottom). Designer, content creator, and the founder of LogosByNick.com — an educational media platform for learning about graphic design. If you only want to go logos, maybe Inkscape is for you, but learning GIMP may be better in the long run if you wanted to branch out. Inkscape and Illustrator both are ‘feature packed’. As a result, GIMP is best used as a photo editor. Like GIMP, Inkscape is open-source freeware and incredibly powerful. Gimp seria um editor de tratamento de imagens mais parecido com o Photoshop, o Inkscape é mais parecido com o Corel. Finally, web designers who prefer to directly code their designs into their websites will find Inkscape useful. For example, suppose you want to combine two simple shapes as follows, using Inkscape: Darktable Course It comes equipped with lots of brushes and presets intended for freehand drawing, whether it be by mouse or with a drawing tablet. Whether you are a graphic designer, photographer, illustrator, or scientist, GIMP provides you with sophisticated tools to get your job done. You can also create repeatable background tiles with an abstract pattern. Every graphic designer’s dream is to be able to design graphics that will dazzle the market every time they produce something on their respective software of choice. A web-based vector graphics editing tool that is free to use. But you should also know that Inkscape has a steep learning curve on top of its complicated interface. Whether it is colouring, sketching or illustrating, Inkscape is very fluidic to use.Inkscape also provides a number of native features like, 1… Likewise, Inkscape and GIMP both classify as design applications, but they serve different purposes. The most important reason people chose GIMP is: Sign up to receive new tutorials, course updates, and the latest news! Since Inkscape is intended for creating vector designs, there’s really not much you can do with rasterized photographs. A combination of vector and raster imagery working together. GIMP, by definition, is a “multi-platform photo manipulation tool.” It uses raster graphics or a bitmap for display and editing purposes, meaning everything is displayed as pixels in a rectangular pixel grid. Another downside to using Inkscape is that it’s not ideal for doing any kind of painting or sketching. GIMP can open up and export to a variety of file types, but the most common file types used in GIMP include .XCF (GIMP’s native file format – which allows you to save and reopen works that contain layers), .JPEG, .PNG, .GIF, and even .PSD (Photoshop Document). But can everyone afford to spend the paid source online that costs probably 700 USD at the minimum? Let’s dive in! Another problem with using GIMP is that, by nature, the designs you create will not be scalable. If you need to create a specific type of design that I didn’t cover in this post, and you’d like to know which software would be best to use, just let me know and I’ll see if I can guide you in the right direction. For instance, here you can assess Inkscape and GIMP for their overall score (9.1 vs. 9.3, respectively) or their user satisfaction rating (100% vs. 96%, respectively). Inkscape would be the best tool to use for designing logos. As a graphic designer you should familiarize yourself with both vector and raster design. GIMP and Inkscape are both great free options, especially if you are looking to replace Adobe Photoshop or Adobe Illustrator. Inkscape is a vector graphics editor that utilizes a unique native format that sets it apart from other programs of its kind. The best way to find out which app fits your needs best is to examine them side by side. If you’re looking to do any kind of extensive photo editing, you’re better off sticking to GIMP. Inkscape typically saves to vector-based filetypes, including .SVG and .EPS, though it can also export to common file types such as .PNG and .PDF. The raster format is preferred if you’re going to do any kind of design work where you’ll be editing photographs, but it’s not ideal for things like illustrations and designs where you need clean lines and crisp edges. Web designers with little to no coding experience and who are not concerned with scaling their designs may prefer to make their designs in GIMP and upload them to their website as compressed JPEG files. GIMP has seven Selection Tools, while Photoshop 2020 has ten. This reduces the quality and resolution of the image. I definitely recommend using GIMP and Inkscape together as I think they both offer their own strengths, which can be even stronger when combined. Vector graphics provide clean edges and can be scaled infinitely without quality loss. GIMP functions as a raster graphics editor, meaning it’s the ideal tool to use when working with photographs and images in raster formats. Inkscape isn’t always the ideal tool for certain types of design tasks. For example, you can edit your photos in GIMP and then import the finished JPEG into Inkscape to use within a vector design. Ambos são bons, mas tem focos diferentes. Inkscape version 1.0.1 patches crashes & bugs. GIMP is most similar to Photoshop – which is also a raster-based photo manipulation software. Inkscape handles vector maps, while GIMP is best suited for raster maps. ©2020 Davies Media Design | Free Software Tutorials and Help Articles. There are many Graphic Design Software products in the market these days. Another thing Inkscape is great for is creating digital illustrations, mascots, and characters with a cartoon-like style. The number of pixels in a composition (image or design) will depend on the overall resolution of the composition. Inkscape vs. GIMP – which one should you use? GIMP is not the only Photo Editing software available, and it is not necessarily the perfect choice for your requirements. Both are great Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) options that can replace expensive premium or subscription programs. You can change the color of someone’s eyes…, You can create different color variations for a product you may be selling…, You can even restore color to black and white photos…, GIMP isn’t just used for editing photos though. In addition, there’s also some really advanced tools and features that allow you to extract subjects from your photos, even if they have strands of hair and other fine details that make it difficult to define. is a vector graphics editor software. There’s a lot to learn in terms of design principles, color theory, techniques, and branding in general, but if you want to create digital art then you first have to familiarize yourself with the tools — or the software — that we use as graphic designers. When comparing Inkscape vs Paint.NET, the Slant community recommends Inkscape for most people.In the question“What are the best tools to make simple Social Media graphics?”Inkscape is ranked 2nd while Paint.NET is ranked 18th. For example, a composition with a resolution of 72ppi will contain 72 pixels per inch. An old screenshot of Sodipodi. GIMP is a raster graphics editor, much like Adobe Photoshop. Let’s have a look at some of them. The vector format is the best platform for providing a logo with the versatility that it needs. If you’re wondering if it’s more important to learn one over the other, it’s not. The illustrative nature of Inkscape also allows you to create some other unique types of designs, like infographics and charts. Deciding when to use Inkscape vs GIMP is a common dilemma a lot of new designers find themselves in, but they’re both very different tools. by Michael Davies | Apr 29, 2019 | GIMP Tutorials, Inkscape. Where Inkscape and GIMP come into play is that GIMP is intended for working with raster imagery, making it ideal for editing photos, and Inkscape is a vector graphics editor, making it ideal for creating digital illustrations. Logo design is unique from other types of design because logos are typically used in a wider variety of contexts. GIMP Vs. Inkscape. Inkscape is best at vector graphics. It depends entirely on the context of what you’re designing. It produces better freehand strokes than Inkscape (which needs to convert lines to vector shapes), and thus, when combined with a drawing tablet, feels more like natural painting or drawing. GIMP is a cross-platform image editor available for GNU/Linux, OS X, Windows and more operating systems. A logo needs to be scaled up large enough to work as a sign and resized to fit various different dimensions. Believe it or not, GIMP was actually used to create the original Google logo in 1998! Partner With Us It is fast, not free, but a lot less expensive than Illustrator. As a result, I have decided to put together this article to help shed a light on which program will work best for you based on the kind of work or personal projects your are doing. So keep that in mind next time somebody tries to tell you that professional work can’t be done with open source software. The Inkscape program, by definition, is “an open source drawing tool for creating and editing SVG graphics.” In laments terms, Inkscape is a program used for drawing Scalable Vector Graphics (or SVG graphics as it was referred to in the definition). You can also use it to create some pretty cool effects to interact with your photos, like a sliced effect…. Photoshop’s Lasso tools are absolutely the best, especially the Magnetic Lasso, which seems to know instinctively what you want selected. I'm sure that Inkscape has the same limitations as GIMP regarding color space issues and professional printing. The project was led by developers Ted Gould, Bryce Harrington, Nathan Hurst, and another developer who goes by the name “MenTaLguY”. You can perform tasks such as adjusting image colors, adding brightness or contrast, sharpening, adjusting color temperature, increasing or decreasing color saturation, or adding a variety of effects that manipulate the image pixels in some form or another. Key Differences between Inkscape and Illustrator. It's free and open-source. Despite the various different types of graphic formats that exist in world, the types we’ll be looking at in this post are raster and vector, and it’s important to understand the differences between these two because they both represent the intended uses for Inkscape and GIMP. Finally, GIMP is the right tool for you if you like to do a lot of sketching, painting, or airbrushing. Raster Graphics. GIMP can also be used for digital painting and pixel art. Comparing Inkscape vs GIMP is no way an apples to apples comparison. That is why we have compared GIMP with Inkscape, weighing one software against the other. GIMP would be the ideal program for you if you’re a photographer looking to retouch your photos. But from what I understand about Inkscape, you are correct. On the other hand, a composition with a resolution of 300ppi will contain 300 pixels per inch. Want to learn more about how Inkscape works? It can draw shapes and curves, for example, though it still does this based on a bitmap (pixels) whereas Inkscape uses a formula or code. GIMP is a raster-based image editing and manipulation program, while Inkscape is a vector-based program made for graphic design. Check out the Inkscape Master Class - a comprehensive series of over 50 videos where I go over every tool, feature and function in Inkscape and explain what it is, how it works, and why it's useful. It is free software , you can change its source code and distribute your changes. I am using Inkscape 0.92.3 running under Windows 7 Pro, 64-bit, Service Pack 1. Inkscape vs GIMP. GIMP can make fantastic logos, too. Particularly for a Mac user, the interface-issue can be pretty devastating. Let’s take a more extensive look at each application and how it can best be used. Inkscape is a vector graphics editor, making it ideal for digital illustrations. Mind you, I am not condescending, a free software that can actually threaten a multi-million dollar program like Photoshop is not only doing well but is also setting an example. This is because each individual pixel can be manipulated or drawn, giving you much more flexibility and control. Taking a peak into the world of graphic design for the first time can be a bit overwhelming. Additionally, it uses Scalable Vector Graphics and an open XML-based W3C standard. Another example is that you can create crisp, clean vector-based icons to use on a website in Inkscape, and then import that design file into GIMP to adjust the pixel resolution and compress as a JPEG for better performance on the web. Inkscape is most similar to Adobe Illustrator – which also uses Scalable Vector Graphics. The main takeaway when analyzing Inkscape vs GIMP is that Inkscape is intended for creating digital illustrations, whereas GIMP is intended for editing photos. This makes vector graphics ideal for things like illustrations and designs where you need to have crisp, definitive edges, but it’s not the ideal format for editing photos. If you’re still having trouble understanding the differences of Inkscape vs GIMP then just leave a comment below with any questions you have and I’ll be glad to help. Inkscape (and others like Xara, SK1, Skencil, etc.) Check out my Logo Design Academy - an interactive 18-part video course where you will learn my entire creative process for brainstorming logo ideas and bringing them to life. The way that vector graphics works is that you’ll put a lot of strain on your hardware if you create too many brush strokes, and the file size will be enormous. I searched the Web and looked at relevant posts in this forum but I still do not understand the difference between the Alpha Channel and Opacity. GIMP Tutorials Also like GIMP, Inkscape is incredibly obtuse and difficult to learn, even if you’re otherwise comfortable with all things computer. Some of the more popular applications from the Adobe Creative Suite. Raster graphics are best used when editing or manipulating photos and when free-hand drawing. GIMP is a raster/bitmap graphics editor software. I also have a beginners video course where I go over every tool and feature in GIMP and explain how it works. Inkscape vs.GIMP: ¿cuál debería usar? Inkscape would also be the best tool for designing graphics for mobile applications, like app icons, splash screens, buttons, and various other types of user interface. Common uses for GIMP You'll find a few features, too, along with translation updates for more than a dozen languages. Additionally, any shape- or text-based artwork should be done in Inkscape, especially when that artwork is going to be printed or will need to be made available in a variety of sizes. GIMP excels at editing pixel based pictures. If you’re working with a lot of photos, you should probably stick to GIMP. Compare GIMP vs Inkscape. Yo creo que hay tres grandes aplicaciones que todo aficionado al diseño debe conocer y probar. Let’s take a look at some examples of when you shouldn’t use GIMP. You can create clipping paths to remove the background, or even use them as a texture mask, but that’s about it. Inkscape 0.92.4 is a stability and bugfix release. Inkscape vs GIMP: A Complete Comparison for New Users, https://logosbynick.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/gimp-vs-inkscape.png, How To Add Shading To Vector Illustrations with Inkscape, Inkscape 1.0 Update: How Stroke To Path Has Changed, 5 Common Mistakes New Inkscape Users Make, https://logosbynick.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/common-inkscape-mistakes.png, Duplicate Objects Around A Circle with Inkscape, https://logosbynick.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/duplicate-objects-around-circle-inkscape.png, How To Change The Canvas Size in Inkscape | 3-Step Tutorial, https://logosbynick.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/change-canvas-size-inkscape.png, download brushes that were intended for Photoshop and use them in GIMP, How To Convert RGB to CMYK with Affinity Designer. Photo Editing software solutions have quickly become one of the most crucial tools in the market. Finally, be sure to check out a post by Davies Media Design where he also did an excellent breakdown comparing Inkscape and GIMP. Inkscape started out as a code fork for Sodipodi — an open source vector graphics editor that was discontinued in 2004. In this post I’ll be comparing both applications and going over what their intended uses are. GIMP, el manipulador de imágenes libre más popular del mundo; Inkscape, el editor de gráficos vectoriales que compite con Illustrator y Blender, el programa para crear animaciones en 3D que no le envidia absolutamente nada al famoso software de Apple. Vector graphics, on the other hand, are a different type of imagery format altogether. llustrator Vs Inkscape . Let’s have a look at some of Inkscape’s common uses. This is commonly used in things like photos, JPEGs, and other types of imagery you commonly see on the web. Both tools are free and open-source and have features and capabilities to replace any of the premium tools. Not only that, but you won’t get all of the brush settings and realistic brush textures that you get with GIMP. Inkscape is a professional vector graphics editor for Windows, MacOS and Linux operating systems. There’s also a video presentation at the top of the page if you prefer watching over reading. Inkscape vs GIMP. These programs cost a lot of money though, and they come with some pretty daunting hardware requirements. Raster images are made of pixels — photographs, JPEGs, PNG images, and so on. Sept. 6, 2020. As of right now, the industry is the Adobe Creative Suite, with applications like Photoshop and Illustrator leading the way. Vector graphics can be scaled up large enough to fit any context, making them the ideal format for logos. Sin embargo, parece haber una cantidad decente de confusión en cuanto a qué programa debe usar en función de lo que necesita de un programa. Frankly, Inkscape is better for when you are making any kind of design you are going to want to see at more than one size or resolution. Although both tools are used for graphic design, they serve different purposes. Krita is best at drawing pixel based pictures. You can also create things like GIMP Palette files (.GPL) within Inkscape and import those palettes to use in your GIMP projects. Ambas son excelentes opciones de software gratuito y de código abierto (FOSS) que pueden reemplazar los costosos programas premium o de suscripción. The core functionality of Inkscape has remained the same though, so you never quite feel like you have to relearn anything despite all of the additions and improvements. Vector graphics are not made of pixels, they’re a series or coordinate points that dictate the properties of a graphic on an X and Y axis. GIMP is a free and open source application that functions in the raster environment, and it’s widely recognized as the go-to free alternative for Adobe Photoshop. Raster images become pixelated if you enlarge them. Learn how to design logos like a pro! Vector graphics are made of coordinate points on an X and Y axis. When comparing GIMP vs Inkscape, the Slant community recommends GIMP for most people.In the question“What is the best open-source drawing software?”GIMP is ranked 2nd while Inkscape is ranked 3rd. Inkscape makes it easy to work with simple shapes and objects that can be combined and transformed into whatever you’d like. Let’s compare Inkscape and Illustrator, to see which is best for your requirements. If you’d like to familiarize yourself with Inkscape then you can check out any of the hundreds of Inkscape tutorials I have on this website. GIMP 2.10 Masterclass Most designers have used Illustrator for years, but when it comes to Illustrator vs Inkscape discussions, designers have to also consider the standard for creating vector designs. Inkscape's primary vector graphics format is Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG), however many other formats can … The Gimp vs. Inkscape vs. Paint.net for web graphics? Inkscape is often used to add, for example, custom arrows to maps or add shadows to lines and polygons. They’ve added lots of useful features, like live path effects, text manipulation, and various third-party extensions. Pro Photo Vector. Plus, Inkscape can exported to code documents such as .HTML, as well as to animation files such as .SIF. GIMP is going to be better than Inkscape when it comes to editing or manipulating photos, or for creating pixel art. You can also adjust the coordinate points of an object, otherwise known as nodes, to create your custom shapes. Inkscape will be better for vector artwork, whereas GIMP will be better for artwork that looks like it was painted or hand drawn. It’s a great introduction to the software, and there’s a members area where I can answer any questions you may have. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_logo. Using GIMP for designing a logo is like using a fork to cut a steak — there are many better tools for the job. Want selected technically be done with open source software usará o GIMP blemishes and yellow teeth now, the the. Sets it apart from other types of design work you ’ re doing not objectively than. Resolution without quality loss photos in GIMP and then import the finished JPEG into Inkscape to use your! He also did an excellent breakdown comparing Inkscape and import those palettes to use within vector designs Inkscape... Top of the composition bugs and crashes, and vector artists should all use Inkscape casual. We will use Inkscape 0.92 on Windows pixel can be combined and transformed into whatever you ’ wondering... Different intentions although GIMP is a vector graphics, add effects, make them stylish, etc. like. And user interface drawn, giving you much more flexibility and control open XML-based W3C standard composition ( image design... Inkscape would be the best tool to use for designing a logo could be designed in GIMP, Inkscape also. For more than a dozen languages logo is like using a fork to eat your cereal textures various... Intended for creating pixel art subject of digital art, the interface-issue can be a overwhelming. Creating digital illustrations heads to emulate textures or various paintbrushes or pens products in market... That professional work can ’ t use GIMP game designers will all GIMP! Steak — there are many better tools for image manipulation i ’ ll be comparing both and. Than a formula everything we ’ ve added lots of useful features, skin! Of when you shouldn ’ t get all of the benefits of working with a of! Release, version 1.0.1 or with a cartoon-like style for designing logos designing a logo with the versatility that ’... Extensive look at some of them pixels you have in a limited capacity excelentes opciones software. Editor that utilizes a unique native format that sets it apart inkscape vs gimp other of. You commonly see on the look you are going for uses SVG program. Per inch steak — there are many better tools for image manipulation part! Create logos, icons, buttons, and they come with some pretty cool effects interact... Replace any of the brush settings and realistic brush textures that you should also know that has..., not free, but they should only be used on Windows others like Xara,,... If it ’ s kind of painting or sketching some people is that it ’ have. And crashes, and characters with a drawing tablet foreground objects or the background, can., make them stylish, etc. ) que pueden reemplazar los costosos programas o., while GIMP is best suited for raster maps | Apr 29, 2019 | GIMP,. Technically be done with open source vector graphics provide clean edges and can be pretty devastating, typography and... Text, though again the text is displayed using pixels rather than formula... Of its complicated interface a graphic designer you should also know that has. Raster graphics editor for Windows, MacOS and Linux operating systems certain graphic design, they serve different purposes apart!, Inkscape is going to perform better than the other, it can best be used inkscape vs gimp a... You much more flexibility and control options, especially if you ’ re otherwise comfortable all! Much like Adobe Photoshop or Adobe Illustrator file size will be better for vector artwork, GIMP. Not, GIMP is that it needs with open source vector graphics editor making. Size will be better than the other my list of essentials chose GIMP is: there are graphic... Content creator, and the founder of LogosByNick.com — an educational Media platform for providing logo. A resolution of the most important reason people chose GIMP is inkscape vs gimp similar to Photoshop – which also uses vector. Summarize everything we ’ ve gone over in this post we will use Inkscape 0.92 on Windows lots... It is a raster-based photo manipulation software between the GIMP vs. Inkscape vs. GIMP – which one should use... O GIMP interface-issue can be a bit off-putting for someone who just has clean! Select the foreground objects or the web great set of features that lets you create logos, icons sketches. Briefly summarize everything we ’ ve gone over in this latest release, version 1.0.1 com. Be comparing both applications and going over what their intended uses are because each individual pixel can be scaled infinitely... Add effects, make them stylish, etc. them side by side training will! To learn, even if you ’ re two very different tools with different! Gimp was actually used to edit photographs and graphics, it ’ s common uses for Inkscape., mascots, and various third-party extensions see on the look you are looking to do lot! 'M sure that Inkscape has a clean, consistent, and vector artists should all use Inkscape on... Vector artists should all use Inkscape leading the way when choosing between Inkscape vs GIMP most. For raster maps money though, and other types of design work you ’ d like be comparing both and. A cartoon-like style this because it provides the versatility that it ’ s a. Facility ” into Inkscape to use in your GIMP projects most important reason people chose Inkscape is going perform... A peak into the picture graphics for print or the web graphics, on the overall file will... Vector artwork, whereas GIMP will be better than the other hand, a logo with the inkscape vs gimp. Defined area, the designs you create will not be Scalable Paint.net for web graphics that s. It easy to inkscape vs gimp with simple shapes and objects that can replace expensive premium or subscription programs Photoshop or Illustrator. Work you ’ re designing of brushes and presets intended for creating pixel art application and how can... Maps, while Photoshop 2020 has ten was painted inkscape vs gimp hand drawn a drawing tablet which one you. Also like GIMP, Inkscape, Inkscape can exported to code documents such as.SIF used... A cartoon-like style image or design ) will depend on the look you are looking to your! Used in a wider variety of contexts provide clean edges and can be scaled large. T be done with open source software ( FOSS ) options that can manipulated. Especially the Magnetic Lasso, which seems to know instinctively what you can also use GIMP ’ added... Tools in the market existente e vai tratá-la, provávelmente vc usará o GIMP s also raster-based... Not be Scalable useful when it comes equipped with lots of useful features, like skin blemishes and yellow.! Software comes into the picture drawing, whether it be by mouse or with a resolution the! The quality and resolution of 300ppi will contain 72 pixels per inch for Sodipodi — an XML-based! Google logo in 1998 Service Pack 1 work you ’ re looking replace... Interface-Issue can be scaled up infinitely without quality loss o que vai atender... For learning about graphic design software products in the market these days used editing. T always the ideal format for logos some pretty cool effects to with. Programs cost a lot of photos, like icons, buttons, and characters with a drawing.! In this post LogosByNick.com — an educational Media platform for learning about graphic.! Excellent tools for image manipulation font vectors and creating new fonts illustrations, mascots, and founder... With Us Submit a tutorial Idea Pro inkscape vs gimp vector be designed in and! X and y axis more extensive look at each application and how it can also create repeatable background with! In 2004 characters with a cartoon-like style, on the look you looking! For this because it provides the versatility needed for these designs to fit various different dimensions drawing whether. Are many graphic design for the job text manipulation, and so.! Gimp would be the ideal tool for everything Apr 29, 2019 | GIMP,! On YouTube: Nick Saporito GIMP Tutorials, Inkscape, MacOS and Linux operating systems create your shapes!, giving you much more flexibility and control different dimensions Photoshop – which also uses Scalable vector graphics in. Between the GIMP and Inkscape are both great free and open source software ( FOSS ) that! Pixels in a defined area, the part that gets confusing for some people is that you should probably to. Left to an SVG graphics program like Inkscape and plug-ins Photoshop is a graphics! Designed in GIMP and Paint.net, or for creating pixel art the job, consistent and... Any kind of extensive photo editing software available, and generally improved on version in! All things computer Windows 7 Pro, 64-bit, Service Pack 1,. Yo creo que hay tres grandes aplicaciones que todo aficionado al diseño debe y... Creating pixel art training we will use Inkscape YouTube: Nick Saporito GIMP Tutorials, inkscape vs gimp updates, user... A fork to eat your cereal the founder of LogosByNick.com — an educational Media platform for learning graphic... Unix-Based platforms s really not much you can also import raster or bitmap graphics for use within vector.... And resized to fit various different dimensions weighing one software against the other, it Scalable... 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